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Collusion, smart poker or 'no friends' - Cash game playby answer20 | Published Mar 07, 2012 |
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So you are at your regular cash game sitting next to what else, a regular, and you are both hitting the deck hard today both in play and great hole cards. Your 'friend' leans over and says that "normally I ... we ... should go after each other but let's lay low today and keep running this table over and avoid hands with each other". I say "Sometimes that is unavoidable" and kind of knod my head 'in agreement'. Over the course of the next 3 or 4 orbits this guy is opening pots higher than normal (being very aggresive all the time anyway) and I, being on his left, am feeling kind of left out of this 'arrangement' ... not that I was getting cards anymore anyway.
So I finally get in a hand and flop a double-belly-buster straight draw, rainbow board. SB leads out and this guy min-raises. I start to look at the Button and SB and then I start getting this guy bumping me in the leg under the table ... more than likely in a way that some at the table would have had to see it ... multiple times!! This is (must be) my signal to fold and let him have the pot ... right. Or is it? I have him covered by a small amount and I am close to being priced in as I sense the SB will call, possibly the Button as well ... and implied odds are screaming at me in my head that I could have the largest score I have ever had if I felt him. But then comes a second round of leg tapping ... so I ask the SB what he has in his stack trying not to insta-fold to the obvious activity happening under the table.
I end up folding as does the Button with the SB calling as I thought he would. The Turn is a blank ... SB bets out, my 'friend' goes all-in, SB calls and I would have hit the high end of the straight on the River. SB shows 2-pair ... 'friend' shows a flopped low-end straight.
Now granted I certainly would not have called the Turn all-in ... and it's possible that the SB goes all-in on the Flop as well, which I don't call either. But the dilemma here is how do you handle this situation as a whole? Is there a long-term 'relationship' between regulars at the table going after the fish money and not each other? I am interested in your thoughts ... I certainly would have called the all-in if I had called the Flop and made my hand on the Turn so there is no question there. The issue is the influence I allowed by the tapping leg ...
As it turns out the 'Poker Gods' were looking out for me later and I still cashed out a top 5 cash session for me ... so if I had called, the cards muck different and all the future hands never happen. Is this collusion? Smart poker to avoid losing one of your largest scores yet? Or are there no friends at the poker table? Options ... Such is poker ... I await your comments.
Comments
WPS22
1 year ago
What you are talking about is no less than collusion. If I was at your table I would report you to the floor, and if you and your friend weren't kicked out I would move to a different table and tell anyone that sat down next to you guys exactly what i saw.
Not wanting to get into a pot with another regular because you'd rather get involved w/ a fish is perfectly acceptable. Discussing a deal like that ahead of time is not. Tapping legs under the table is beyond ridiculous, if the guy did that to me i would have kicked him back as hard as i can. You don't owe this guy anything, he could have easily got you thrown out of this game.
I'm not trying to sound rude because I don't think you had any bad intentions and it sounds like you were just roped into this BS by the other guy. But reg or not, friend or not, getting thrown out and labeled a cheater isn't worth being nice to this guy.
I belive most live players would agree that this activity is totally unacceptable. It sounds like you already know that though. You even admit you asked a guy for a count as not to insta fold when the guy was tapping your feet.
answer20
1 year ago
Thanks for your comments, they certainly confirm the anxious feelings I was having during play until our table broke later. I do have to say though that this person is someone I only see playing poker and was using the term 'friend' very loosely ... and he was drunk by the end of the session as well. I assume I will find out he lost most of his stack at his new table but I chose to leave at the table break ... we broke for lack of players, not this issue, as we busted 4 or 5 others along the way.
I do have real friends that I play with and we have already discussed these issues before we sit down that all is fair-game at the table. I play at charity rooms, not casinos, and have felt the leg bump before (or there is an over-bet with a stare-down look from a regular ... 'I have a set, back off'), but this is the first time someone had actually tried to verbalize it with me and I was caught off guard, especially from this particular player.
In poker you need to play the player as well as your cards and I have been told by many that I am 'too nice' to play poker. This other player may have been taking advantage of that in order to protect his big score since I was the only threat at the table at that time. I certainly wish that I had called and hit my straight on the Turn to felt him as that would have made big news in our little mid-western charity room ... he would have made sure of it. The nice guy image would have taken a hit, but these types of issues would hopefully disappear. See you accross he felt.
clunker
1 year ago
I will be rude you are a cheat. Even a beginner would know this is not acceptable behavoir
answer20
1 year ago
I am not disputing the fact that it is unacceptable. What I am looking for is how to handle it should it happen again. I got one guy telling me to kick him back. Do you pull him off the table and talk? Do you address it with the floor first? I did tell him that 'sometimes that's not avoidable' when he first brought it up. I am not one to stir the pot at the table or call someone out in front of other people, but if that is what needs to be done, then I will have to be prepared to do that ... I agree being roped in and having a label put on you 'un-justly' in NOT a good thing when this is a regular place for you to go into.
clunker
1 year ago
Just say no I will not collude with you out loud in front of every one at the table. That should settle the matter. It probably lose you a fake friend but you should feel a lot better about your self.