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Protect Your Cards, Because I'm and A**hole

 

by dtools22  |  Published May 08, 2012

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So this past week I found myself in an interesting situation. It was the first time in a little while I had encountered something completely new to me at the tables. Therefore I reacted without really considering my options as carefully as I should have. I reflected on what went down later that night and decided that not only did I feel like I handled the situation as best I could, but I was also completely justified in what I did. I don't think the entire poker community is going to agree with me on this one but I'll tell my side of the story here today and let you be the judge as to whether or not what I did was justified and ethical.

So I'm playing in a 1/2NL game down at Foxwoods. The game has been pretty soft for most of my time there. One such villain has been chatting up a storm. He's in his early 40s and has been frequenting the casino since it opened 20 years ago, or at the very least that's the story he was going with on this particular day. Anyway, he did seem to have a basic knowledge of the game but I wouldn't call him a threat to me at the table by any means. He was sitting three seats to my left so he wasn't really someone I was expecting to get a whole lot of value from in this game. We both for the most part just stayed out of each other's way. For whatever reason though, we got involved in one of the more interesting pots of last week's sessions for me.

Action is folded around to me and I raise to $11 in the HJ with KhQd. Our villain in question is the only caller in the SB and we see a flop of Th4d2h. Our villain checks to me and I decided to check behind. This guy was the the type of player to not fold if he has any piece of this board. Bottom pair is worth seeing one more card over so I decided to take my free card option. The turn comes the 4h giving me two overs and a K-high flush draw. Our villain wakes up suddenly and bets $10 into the $20 dollar pot. I think there is a reasonable chance I still have the best hand, plus I have plenty of outs to see one more card turn. I call and the river peels off the 8d, what appears to me to be a total blank. Our villain fires out a $20 bet this time. I start to really think about my decision here. I really didn't want to fold my hand because this player had been getting a little splashy over the past few orbits and this could easily just be another example of that. My only problem here is he could be getting splashy with A-high and still have me crushed. I glance over at our villain, he looks like he wants nothing to do with this hand anymore. He's sitting perfectly still as though a cheetah just spotted him and he really doesn't want to get into a foot race. I grab my cards to looks at them again, more to kill time while I think than anything else. As I do this my opponent grabs his cards very sloppily, and in doing show partially flashes them to me. I see two black cards and one of them is a face card. Given this new information and coupled with my villain's disdain for his holding I make the call. He rolls over Ks9s and I take down the pot.

I thought about this later on. Was what I did ethical as a poker player? While I was pondering this at the table the villain in question was just kind of in shock. He finally said to me, "I couldn't get you off that hand for $20 huh?" At this point I felt like if I mentioned to him that he flashed his cards at me he would have thrown an angry fit. So I just calmly said to him, "Nope." I've been thinking about this hand for a few days now and I've told the story to a few poker buddies of mine. Each time the reaction has been the same, "Sick call down with K-high." I'll be honest here, I don't feel particularly achieved having made this call. I imagine this is what a slight of hand magician feels like after pulling off a trick. He or she knows the only reason it looks amazing is because you are standing at a certain angle or you just missed one or two moves in the process. I don't feel like I had a soul read on this guy by any means. He just freely gave me a ton of information and I took it.

Upon reflection I can say this for certain, I have absolutely no remorse for this guy. Yes I did call because I saw what he had, but I wasn't the one who made him reach for his cards. I wasn't shooting an angle to make him fumble with his holding and let me sneak a glance. I wasn't ducking my head down to try and sneak a peak at the answers in the back of the textbook. I simply sat there, observed my opponent, and played my hand accordingly. I feel completely justified in my actions. If you don't protect your cards, you deserve to be posterized like this. Plain and simple.

Let me know what you think. Am I just some angle shooting donkey or is there some merit to my argument? Leave a comment or contact me via any of the following platforms.

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Comments

trentbridge
1 year ago

Assuming your opponent had full functioning hands, then you are not responsible for his unnecessary handling of his hole cards. If he had only one arm and had physical problems grasping and holding two cards, then you would be a scoundrel. If he had no arms, and played with his feet, then you'd be suffering such bad karma in the near future, that I'd advise your friends to avoid being near you.

 
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mikeyb111
1 year ago

What exactly did you do that could be construed as unethical? Is it checking your cards again? Taking extra time on the end? Not telling him you saw his cards? None of those actions come even remotely close to being an angle shot or unethical.

 
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dtools22
1 year ago

There was a gentleman I spoke to after the fact that told me I should have mentioned to the player after the fact that he flashed his cards and to be more careful in the future. I opted not to because I didn't feel obligated to let this guy know that my great call was because he literally turned his hand face up.

That's where the area gets a little gray.

 
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WPS22
1 year ago

I think you should have told him after the fact but you certainly aren't obligated to.

In this instance, it sounds like him showing you was kind of a one time thing, not something he was continually doing. So, telling him wouldn't have really helped him anyway, it would have just been a friendly gesture. Either way, he's probably not showing you his cards again.

Sometimes people will just keep showing you their cards. Obv these are the times when alerting them can actually hurt you and help them. I still think its the right thing to do. It happens so rarely, its not like its going to make a big difference in the long run.

 
 

Jeff3
1 year ago

Poker is a game of incomplete information, and when a player gives you information and you do not act on it you are the fool.

 
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iambobby
1 year ago

You shouls make a friend out of him, and always try to sit besides him. Being able to see the cards of a loose player is a huge edge over the whole table.

 
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popskull
1 year ago

You did nothing wrong. Had you made him laugh or say something crazy while he's reaching to try and distract him and make him fumble, then you're taking a line, you just happened to get lucky. No, you're right that you shouldn't feel some sense of accomplishment (though your read was pretty spot on), but there's no shame in getting luck, and it certainly doesn't make you a worse player. And if you think he's volatile enough to get angry at you giving him the head's up, that's plenty of reason enough not to say a word.

 
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sujan2012
1 year ago

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72worksforme
1 year ago

as long as you stayed in the same position in your chair an made no attempt to look at his cards, then you have no obligation to tell him.
I would feel different if you said he was inexperience, obviously didn't play much, etc, etc. But for someone to brag about playing for 20 years, he needs to be smart enough to protect his cards. I'm all about the highest of ethical standards, but if some idiot wants to show his cards, so be it. Don't think anymore about it.

 
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fillhellmouth
1 year ago

It is your opponents responsibility to protect his cards. If he failed to do so, he has nobody to blame but himself.
Having said that, what exactly did you think he was betting with? I'd have folded before I got to that position. It sounds like you suspected him of bluffing with the best hand. Calling in that situation is a mistake. You should have folded or raised on the turn.

 
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answer20
1 year ago

Don't really see an issue here at all. Didn't anyone else see what you saw? Most casinos that I have played at would have mucked his hand anyway as you can't show even one card ... so the pot was yours regardless of your holdings. You are under no obligation to stir a pot that could boil over. For me it would come down to if he 'fumbles' his cards often ... then a kind reminder to protect is in order.

We had a hand the other night where the 1 seat called 90% of his stack on a nut flush draw and missed. He was holding his cards when the River was exposed and dropped his cards forward towards the dealer in disgust. The cards almost hit the pot which was very close to the player. We ALL took it as a muck, but the other player exposed (when he didn't have to mind you) a missed open-ender KQ. Seat 1 quickly grabs his cards and wants the pot. Floor called, Muck ruled and it then took 4 guys to move him away from the table when he tried to get the pot for himself. He stated that there was no bet line that the cards had crossed and that made them still in play. True but forward motion was ruled ... mucked hand.

Moral of story ... A) Leave your cards on the table and show in turn until you see you are beat. B) Don't turn your cards over if you don't have to until the pot is in your area.

This may seem off topic, but in both cases the person who should have received the pot, got the pot. But in your case you avoided the blow up by letting it be ... if you see him again you can (without mentioning the exact hand) that he needs to protect his cards better if it appears to be 'part of his game'.

 
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