The Future Looks Bright for Electronic Poker TablesBrian Haveson, Founder of Lightning Poker, Talks About Poker Automationby Bob Pajich | Published: Dec 24, 2007 | |
 
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Historically, poker has required several physical elements to play: chips (or money), a table, some chairs, and a deck of cards (which is truly one of the earliest versions of an analog random-number generator). Then Internet poker came along and introduced the world to the virtual table. With online poker, only a personal computer, an Internet connection, and membership to a participating financial institution is needed.
It was only a matter of time before that technology found its way into the traditional brick-and-mortar poker rooms, and that happened in the form of automated poker tables.
Automated poker tables like the ones manufactured by Lightning Gaming and PokerTek, two companies located in the United States, are slowly finding their way - through intense marketing and sales - into poker markets everywhere.
Brian Haveson, poker player and businessman, is one of the key players in the automated poker industry. As the CEO and founder of Lightning Gaming, the company behind Lightning Poker, Haveson is at the forefront of this new industry.
Earlier this year, Lightning Gaming entered an agreement with the gaming company Shuffle Master to distribute its product worldwide. The partnership with Shuffle Master has been invaluable to Lightning Gaming. As Haveson puts it, it made the Pennsylvania company international overnight. Haveson pointed out that Shuffle Master has offices all around the world, with a good portion of its 500-plus staff working to market and sell its properties, Lightning Gaming included.
PokerTek, who manufactures the PokerPro line of tables, including a heads-up version, has a similar distribution agreement with Aristocrat International, an Australian gaming company that distributes gaming products globally.
Also, last month, Lightning Gaming acquired Poker Automation, which was the No. 3 player in the industry.
Lightning Gaming was founded in 2004 by Haveson, but the concept was in the works for a few years. The goal was to "capitalize on the speed of Internet poker play combined with the face-to-face interaction of a live table game, resulting in increased profitability for casino poker rooms."
Haveson gave up a portion of his day to talk with Card Player about Lightning Poker and future of automated poker tables. His company, with the help of Shuffle Master, has placed its tables in casinos located in Macau, Germany, Australia, Bulgaria, Romania, Lebanon, and the United States, and it will soon have tables in casinos in South Africa.
As well as being an accomplished tournament poker player (he's racked up nearly $1 million in tournament wins), Haveson is a businessman with lots of experience. He most recently was the CEO of NutriSystems before founding Lightning Gaming.
Card Player: Are automated poker tables the future for live poker?
Brian Haveson: I think there is always going to be a place for dealered [dealer-dealt] poker. I don't think we'll ever be more than 50 percent of the tables in poker rooms. There are some 100-percent automated poker rooms, but I don't ever envision taking over Bellagio or taking over the Commerce completely with electronic poker tables. I think they'll always be a spot for dealered tables. Some player like the electronic tables, some players like the dealered [ones].
CP: What kind of players like the automated tables?
BH: We've noticed that it's more of a younger demographic, Internet players who are used to the speed of Internet poker. Once you play our tables, then you move over to a dealered table, you do see a noticeable difference in the amount of hands you get per hour. Our tables are much faster. You don't have the dealer mistakes, the dealer changeovers, the splitting of pots, dealing with the chips, or changing the decks. You get a lot more hands, so the younger players who are used to the Internet really seem to gravitate to the tables.
CP: What kind of casino markets do you guys do best in?
BH: We actually do best when there are no dealered tables at all. We're doing very well in Canada, right now. We're doing very well in the European markets. I can't point to what makes one place better than the others besides that the main issue is management support. When management gets behind the product, it really works. When they're not behind it, it doesn't work.
CP: How has the reception been among management in the casinos?
BH: Very good, for the most part. Most of these managers worked their way up through the ranks of being dealers, and some of that may have a little of that mentality of replacing the dealer's jobs with technology.
Running a poker room and managing the dealers is a very daunting task in a big poker room. Keeping all of those dealers scheduled and moving them around and changing them is a very difficult process, so a lot of them welcome the electronic tables from that standpoint.
CP: How has the deal with Shuffle Master changed your company?
BH: It's made us international. I wouldn't have any of those international sales I spoke of if it wasn't for Shuffle Master, [or] very few. It's a big organization. They have 550 employees, and most of those people are salespeople. They have offices in Macau, they have an offices in Australia, they have an offices in South Africa, they have offices in Austria."
CP: Talk a bit about Macau. How important will the electronic poker-table industry be for the future of poker in Macau?
BH: As you know, Macau's doing more revenue than Vegas. I just spent eight days there. I think it's going to be very important, because they have a labor shortage in Macau. They can't get enough dealers to deal the games, and they keep building these mega, mega resorts. You drive through there and everywhere you look there's new construction for a new casino. And if they're going to get poker going, a very important piece of that puzzle is going to be having electronic tables.
If you look at the Venetian, it's a massive property. It's the second-biggest building in the world. It's just a sea of baccarat tables. Baccarat pretty much dominates the gambling dollar in Macau. You don't see a lot of slot machines like you do here. Slot machines are kind of secondary. We had a table at the Grand Waldo that was there during the Asian Pacific Poker Tour. It pretty much ran 24 hours a day at full capacity.
It's a project for us. It's going to take time, but once the market gets it, starts to understand poker, I think it's going to explode. I really believe poker is going to take off in Asia.
CP: How long do you think it will be until the poker market explodes in Macau?
BH: I think it's measured in terms of years instead of months.
CP: What's the process of getting your product in a market like Macau?
BH: We go meet with the decision-makers in Macau. The government considers us a slot machine and not a poker table or a gaming table. All electronic games are considered slot machines, so we meet with the director of slot operations, as opposed to the director of table games, and we talk them through it, and they get it. Pretty much everybody there thinks poker is going to be hot in Macau, but they all agree that it will take some time.
CP: What are some of the other markets in Asia you think will be huge?
BH: I think Malaysia is going to be big. I think Vietnam, obviously, if you look how poker is with Vietnamese players. I think in all of those fringe Asian countries, it's going to be big. I think Korea could be big. Pretty much everywhere. I think everywhere in Asia, it's going to be very popular.
CP: You mentioned Australia as a big market. Why do you think Australia will be a big market for automated poker?
BH: Australians just live poker, and again, they have labor issue in Australia. It's a gigantic country with not much of a population. We just put four tables into Sydney just last week, in the Star City Casino, where the Asian Pacific Poker Tour [took place]. They're doing very well. If you go to the World Series, you always run into Australians. They just love the game.
CP: What did Joe Hachem's World Series of Poker win do for poker in Australia?
BH: It was huge. That's a big part of it why it's so popular. It's absolutely huge.
CP: What's the future going to bring for Lightning Poker?
BH: It's just going to be slowly building it up, getting casinos interested in the product and placing it, and taking our time and making sure everything is done right and increasing sales. And basically we only have one competitor, and that's PokerTek, and there's clearly room enough for two players.
CP: Do you have plans to introduce more automated poker products to the world?
BH: What we've done is we have multiple games that play on our table. The next game that we actually introduced at G2E [Global Gaming Expo] was an automated slot tournament. You know these casinos offer these slot tournaments to their players to get the players into the casinos. Well, what they do is they basically play it on our tables as opposed to tying up their slot machines. A lot of casinos have seen a lot of value in that concept.
CP: Where do you think the next big poker market will be in America?
BH: I think everywhere. I think every state is going to have poker tables, eventually. I think every state is going to have a casino and every state is going to have poker tables. Poker players don't want to travel too far to play, so I think it's going to hurt places like Atlantic City, you know, when Maryland opens up poker rooms and Pennsylvania opens up poker rooms. I just think everywhere.
14 Comments
bmpek
1 year ago
do the tables talk sports, partying, family, etc oh thety just deal. do the tables drop the deck, flip cards over ,turn and burn to soon, miscall hands, push the pot to loser. argue with you when they are 100% wrong. wear cheap perfume. do you get more hands out, no tipping, no bad decesions by floor people with their hand out. WOW what more can a player want. please post a list of casinos who have this . i will be there tomorrow
Broadsword
1 year ago
Stop it, Poker is meant to be played with a real dealer and this is just another attempt to increase casino/house profits by not paying the min. wage dealers... If I want this type of play, I would do it on the internet...
Samson557
1 year ago
No cards sliding across the felt? No cards to treasure or muck? No chips to rake in or gleefully stack? No dealer to thank for a wired pair? No more a "chip and a chair"? Fewer physical tells? Just a cold, lifeless screen to look at? Don't we spend too many hours already, our eyeballs glazing over, looking at screens? You won't catch me at one of these tables. I wouldn't even bother driving to the casino if this were my only option. And who needs a quicker game? It's between hands that you chat up the other people at the table. These tables will kill the fun.
martman300
1 year ago
I prefer a live game with a live dealer. We have all seen the internet sites geared for action. Admit it or not, how often do you see the top 3 NUTS hand out there with the lead changing with evry new card turned over, it happens all too often on the internet & it's not just beacause more hands are dealt.
You don't see that in a human dealt game. I will stick to those & I make my living playing poker, more hand with less mistakes would be great, but I am fine with the way it is.
KingRichardII
1 year ago
My one (and last) experience was on my last cruise. As previously stated, if I want to play electronically, I can stay home!
But the worst incident was after two players had raised the other players out of a pot, one looked at the other (his wife, as it turns out), and said "Okay, let's just check it down now".
They may have occasional drawbacks, but give me dealers every time!
ISBChampion
1 year ago
Why would I want to travel to play digital poker when I can play in my own house. I prefer live anyway. The mere though of these tables in my local casino makes me want to hurl.
ThePsycho
1 year ago
Brian Haveson is a has been. There was similar technology at Hollywood Park casino and it bombed big time.
robtr3
1 year ago
Like he said, it works in some places and it doesn't in others. BTW, Psycho, how much in tournament winnings do you have (to his million-plus)?
DasMynAme
1 year ago
bmpek the list of casinos you look for is on internet you can save time,traffic,and gas money too.The faster the hand dealt the faster the money will dissappear on the table.If you win enjoy that.If you lose why rust for ?
pokerpro1078
1 year ago
i totelly agree i personally like the whole package when it comes to live poker .the feal of the cards the stacking of chips the real feel of poker . but i will say this ,if thats what it takes to get poker in mass as a loophole as it goes under electronic game not a table game i would play .that being said i love live poker but if there was nothing else i would play it ,its a good idea its all what you prefere i guess . later evry1 . merry x-mas
Philadelphia
1 year ago
My only experience with automated poker tables was on carnival cruise lines. They used Pokerpro tables. The experience IMO was simplified. I am a live game person at heart and will always be, some places this would be the best bet. I mean you dont have to worry about chips flying into another players stack, no splashing pots, and the action was fast. I took everyone maybe 3 hands to get used to it and for seven days we all came back and played. Also you can change the tables from tournament structure to cash game, it was a good experience not to mention I still have my account card so if i am traveling i can stop in any casino that has Poker pro and get in a game. The downfall though is it takes away some human elements of the game, which at times can be a pain in the you know what but always gives a nostalgic feel.
bmpek
1 year ago
lets bring back the horse and buggy. how about free food for all players anytime you walked in a casino. you still interact with the players. the dealer is like any service person they should not inject themselves into the game
NJCRUSHER
1 year ago
IF YOU HAVE PLAYED POKER ONLY FOR FUN THEN STICK TO THE DEALER TABLE. IF YOU HAVE PLAYED POKER FOR PROFIT AS A BUSINESS THEN CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING. IF YOU HAVE PLAYED $10-$20 HOLDEM ON A DEALER TABLE THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE NETTED ABOUT ONE BIG BLIND OR $20.00 PER HOUR. ASSUME THAT THE DEALER DEALT ABOUT 25 HANDS PER HOUR. NOW ASSUME THAT THE ELECTRONIC POKER TABLE DEALS ABOUT 35 HANDS PER HOUR. IF YOU ASSUME THAT YOUR PLAYING SKILLS AND HAND CHOICES REMAIN ABOUT THE SAME THEN YOU SHOULD NOW NET ABOUT 1.40 TIMES $20 OR ABOUT $28 PER HOUR ON THE ELECTRONIC POKER TABLE. IF YOU PLAY 40 HOURS PER WEEK OR ABOUT 2000 HOURS PER YEAR THEN YOU MIGHT NET ABOUT $56,000 PER YEAR ON THE ELECTRONIC POKER TABLE INSTEAD OF THE $40,000 PER YEAR THAT YOU NETTED ON THE DEALER TABLE. ALSO CONSIDER THAT YOU MAY HAVE TIPPED ABOUT $5,000 TO $10,000 PER YEAR IN THE PAST. YOUR NEW NET WINNINGS MIGHT BE ABOUT $61,000 TO $66,000. WITH THE ELECTRONIC POKER TABLE YOU STILL HAVE THE CASINO ATMOSPHERE, PLAYER INTERACTION, FOOD AND ALL THE OTHER AMENITIES. WOULD YOU RATHER STAY AT HOME ALONE TO PLAY ONLINE?
allintowin
1 year ago
I play on the Poker Pro tables at the FLB Casino in Folsom Ca and I love it! It's by far the best way to play poker. No mistakes, More money stays on the table, and they through monthly free roll tournaments for their players! On top of the regular $10,000 seeded Bad Beat Jackpot, my local automated poker room just started offering a $1,000,000 Bad Beat Jackpot! I don't think you will ever see me in a dealer dealt casino again!