Why Doyle Is The Best

very, very well said

and even if some of the young turks can't bring themselves to respect doyle's game in the present...they have to respect what he has done for the game of poker and everyone who makes a living from poker in the modern day owes a tip of the cap to doyle

Excellent blog.

I hope Doyle writes a sequel to his autobiography and tells us even more about the pioneers of this great game, greats who have passed like Moss, Pearson, Straus, Roberts, Reese, et al., and greats who are still with us, like Crandell Addington, Amarillo Slim, Billy Baxter (thanks, Scoop guys), Bobby Hoff, and all the others, and what he thinks their real contributions to the game were. Less interesting to me would be the fun anecdotes of the type we've heard already.

Anyone who says a word short of "Legendary" about Doyle Brunson is a punk who needs a lesson in respect.

I used to think Doyle was THE MAN myself. I read Super System 1&2 and other books he wrote about his road gambling days. Always playing in crooked games and what not. Then I moved out to Vegas to play poker regularly. I met some old timers that I play with on a consistent basis. After hearing the stories they had to tell about Doyle and how he never played a straight game in the old days, I lost a lot of respect for him personally. Especially when I heard about him cheating Andy Beal out of all 16 million(then having to give it all back to Andy when he found out).

I just don't have the respect for the "Godfather of Poker" like I used to. Sometimes I wish these old guys never told me all the stories they did because its like finding out your favorite song was written about a sandwich.

Anyway, I realize not many here are going to believe me(and I'm certainly not going to out my sources to prove anything to anyone) so take what I said however you like. One thing is for sure... Get to playing higher and higher limits and you will certainly hear these kinds of "stories/rumors" wayyy more often. Decide for yourself. Me personally, I have no reason to not believe those who have told me these things.

itswhatev:

All right, here's your chance to tell the story of how Doyle cheated Andy Beal out of $16M, then had to give it all back.

No need to refuse by writing that you have to protect your "source". No names necessary; just tell us this amazing story that you are privy to.

I guess that Doyle must have had a lot of help, since the top players in Vegas had to pool their money, and played Andy in "shifts". Right?

We're "all ears".

When Doyle and his road crew were playing in the old days they played off the same bankroll. If that doesn't lend itself to shenanigans well then nothing does. Also just cause a guy can shove a giant stack at you doesn't make him a great player and inventing plays out of thin air? There wasn't anything new under the sun when the game was played 50 years ago and there isn't anything new now.

mikeyb111:

And you know all these things because you are a poker historian, or maybe just a $0.25---$0.50 limit player?

sick burn TRG. Man you really put mikeyb in his place :P

I'm really starting to like Yak.

99 percent of the top players are legit straightforward players. Hell, I don't see how any top player could cheat anyone else(other than the occasional angle shooting and the obv UB scandal). Back in those days, casinos were owned by the mob and everyone knows that. None of the games they every played in were legit. Dealers were crooked in the big games, players colluded and shared rolls. Being a part of that crowd would have been like winning a lotto ticket in some ways. If you ever went broke, guys would just scheme up a way to make some quick money. True hustlers back then and I respect that in some ways.

As for Andy Beal getting cheated.. Of course not all players were involved in that. I understand The Corporation and how it worked. I read the book and researched quite a bit about it as well. I've already said that I'm not here to out my sources and nobody has to believe a word I say anyway. The stories I heard only include the Brunson family as being cheats when it came to playing Andy Beal. I also heard that when Andy found out, he made a call to ol DB explaining the consequences of not returning him his money. While DB may be the ol Texas gambler that he is and come off tough as nails to some, he ponied up that dough about as quick as anyone can pony up 16 million.

Those were heads up high stakes matches between Beal and the gang. Four years ago, it was against Phil Ivey that Beal lost over $16 million, not Doyle or Todd. What are you talking about?

And NONE of the games back in the day were legit? You sound like Joan Rivers.

Don't let logic or the facts get in the way of a story.

Speak in generalities and don't name names, then.

How did this alleged cheating go down?

Certain dealers used to wear little cameras in the cuffs of their shirts for one.

itswhatev:

Did "certain dealers" forget their "little cameras" in the sessions when Andy won?

Your response can't be that Andy got lucky in a big pot and drew out after having his hand tipped. They played limit at his insistence. How many times would he have to "get lucky" with a tipped hand to overcome your cameras?

That's right, a bookmaker would only have one side open on his line about this story.

But now, just for fun, I'll call Andy today and tell him of this. Stay tuned.

Call up Doug Dalton too and have a nice chat with him. He sure got his cut in that game.

itswhatev:

Now, at last, everything that you have been writing about the cheating of Andy Beal makes perfect sense.

Thank you so much for clarifying that Doug Dalton, the poker room manager for Bellagio, where that game took place was in on this big score of $16 million.

Yes, it makes perfect sense that the management of Bellagio, a flagship property of MGM, was more than willing to risk their gaming license and endanger a multi-billion dollar investment by sanctioning a flat store in the most high profile poker room in the world.

We can all understand what a bright future someone of your incredible analytical skills will have in the poker world.

I agree TRG. It's just ludicrous to imagine that an individual would endanger their multi-million dollar employer for a stupid thing like 'money'. I mean come on itswhatev, that doesn't make any sense!!

It's much more likely that if Doug Dalton was involved, that it was just an innocent mistake, like what happened with that billion dollar company Enron.

Ah, the Kiwi YakshaNZ:

Just can't get over the beating that I gave you over the headphones issue, eh?

Go on, git now!!

texasroadturkey

Great blog, very well said.

itswhatev: I don't doubt your sincerity but your aging sources have probably simply had a heck of a long time to come up with some very entertaining, bitter, conspiracy theories and probably not much else!

Straight from the horse's mouth:

I spoke with Andy today, and told him about the allegations.

He laughed, and said that if there were any cameras in the dealers' shirt cuffs, then he must have been playing a team of the worst players in the world since he jumped off to a $10 million dollar lead on The Corporation.

I just registered to comment on this article and it's completely right , there are threads of can doyle beat 200nl etc who gives a damn , who the hell does he have to prove himself to? and who ever posted that ? who the hell who you think you are? nice article leatherass I know you got alot of haters too but keep making the money bro, your awesome!!

-sickaz

If Doyle's decisions are so bad, he sure must be lucky to last this long.

I seem to recall that Doyle has a challenge out there called "Doyle Says" where he gets to change the game whenever he desires. Of course, the chips required to play him will buy a few square miles where I live. Only Ivey has accepted. When I target a poor player online, I buddy list them and chase them from table to table till they are broke. Doyle isn't too hard to chase considering he uses a crutch to walk. Anyone who wants his money can drop into the Bellagio and they'll call him - after you deposit a million or two.

While the net and live have their differences, the losers in both environments see cheating as the reason they lose. I get a giggle thinking about "itswhatev" and his crew discussing conspiracies while Doyle and Sailor and Slim stayed up all night developing strategies to win - and then published it!

On the net, the losers blame bots, collusion, and master accounts. In no way can their losses be caused by not using position, paying off sets with AA, playing above their bankroll, playing while drinking, or failing to quit when tilting. No. Nope. It's bots.

The high-stakes losers say Doyle's a cheat and that's that for itswhatev. Right. The only reason they lose is because of the cheating. Yeah, and the winners on the net are all bots using master accounts.

I'll repeat TRG's question: HOW was Beal cheated? Sharing how doesn't require the revelation of the source. Just the method please.

PS Without digging out my book, didn't they win the most money after moving the game OUT OF the Bellagio? I recall two of them carrying 20+ million in Bellagio chips in a taxi back to the Bellagio with no security because nobody could cash them if stolen.

itswhatev,
I agree with your comments, I visit LV on a regular basis to play poker, unfortuanly, I have heard same comments about Doyle, how they cheated in the old days.

hieaatx:

You "heard some comments", and so you immediately assumed it was true?

Why is that? Never mind answering the question, it is rhetorical. The fact is that you assume the truth of it because you are a loser looking for an excuse.

Pay attention kids, this story is true.

Back in the day, Doyle won a huge pot off some poor guy and immediately after the hand, the guy pulled out a gun and demanded Doyle to give back his money and all of Doyle's.

Doyle said, "nothing doing." and then consumed the bastard with bolts of lightning from his eyes and fireballs out of his arse.

"FREEEEEDOOOOOOOOMMMMM!!"

Texasdirtroader has inflated view of himself and his opinions.

Yes mikey, I agree with your comments about Texasroadloooser.

mikeyb111 and hieaatx, ah what a fine pair to draw to. Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum.

Very well written article.

For some reason, no one has pointed out one of the more obvious flaws in the "Doyle is a cheater" argument. The fact that he never needed to cheat. He literally told you his strategy, which is still a winning/effective strategy, and beat his opponents with it. I couldn't imagine how effective his approach to the game would have been decades ago...regardless of the book in print. There are hundreds of poker strategy books today, and still the fish run deep.

In any event, considering his intellect, experience, long term high stakes cash success, and tournament success in even the most recent WSOP tournaments, it's safe to say he's one of the best to have ever played the game.

My hat's off to The Legend...

Great article Dusty,
I have had the HONOR to meet Doyle in The Bellagio and had him autograph a copy of SUPER SYSTEM to me. What a thrill it was. Anyone with half a brain knows that along with Chip Reese, Johnny Moss, and Stu Ungar, Doyle is one of the GREATEST of the GREAT. These four ARE The Mount Rushmore of Poker.
Why some jealous, immature, self-absorbed clown would accuse Doyle of being a cheat with ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF is beyond my comprehension. Then to have two more clowns agree with clown #1.
We all know for a fact that it's going to happen. Somebody is going to be the first to jump off of the Hoover Dam Bridge. Why don't the three of you race down there right now, and see who can be the first. Do your part to make the world a better place. PLEASE!!!!

Bellagio, I dont doubt that Doyle is one of the greatest poker players of all time. However I think your going a little over board by telling those 3 guys to jump of a bridge due to the fact that they dissed a poker player to make the world a better place. The truth is if a majority of poker players jumped of Hoover Dam the world would be a better place.

I guess if the "sources" of these stories were big time respected players in their own right I'd have to at least listen to them, but they sound like the typical small time old gambler BS that you hear at every casino.

Always guys who are bitter at their lot in life trying to drag people down to their level. Unfortunately the only ones they drag down are the yahoo's who believe their tripe.

These are the same guys who bitch about young players being lucky, they see more bad beats and coolers, and they'll regale you with stories of individual pots won (possibly over a "name" player) while glossing over the fact that they're nobody, just a guy who won a pot off of a better player, not someone who could win against the best day in and day out.

Also Andy kept coming back. Kinda hard to believe that someone as smart as Mr. Beal would volunteer to play the people who cheated him repeatedly???!!!

So unless you're gonna post something that would even qualify as evidence (let alone PROOF) why don't you keep your asinine stories to yourself.

I like poker...."my 2 cents".

LOL @ Doyle cheating $16 million off of someone. If he did that, there would be no asking for it back. Doyle would be dead.
He's still here. I don't believe that story for a second.
Nice blog by the way. I like Doyle and think that he Kelly Slater of Poker. He lasted through so many different era's and is still the man to beat.

Ask doyle about Jack Zwerner and the scams that scoundrel pulled/tried to pull. Me has info that Jack and his team are still perfecting their craft.

Doyle has won and lost more money than most of us will ever make. He is a Legend, a great Man and one to be respected. Thank you Doyle for your support and play in the poker and business world!

I remember playing Party Poker back in the day and I won like 25 million in play money. I was constantly accused of cheating that I have some software to look at their cards. We are talking PLAY MONEY lol. These idiots are unreal sometimes. Trying to tarnish a legend's name like Doyle Brunson is just sad and pathetic. The sad things is people actually believe absurd stuff that they hear from 2 year olds(shaking my head) We really shouldn't even respond to these idiots and feed into their game.

As far as saying who the best player is....I mean It could be Stu,Johnny Moss but those aren't around to defend. But seriously does a legend really need to defend himself? Like DB said on his blog bring 500K to Bobby room and see how any of these kids from the internet does against Doyle. I'll bet my life and my soul on Doyle any day of the week.

I've seen Doyle like everyone else on TV tons of times, seen him interviewed and read what he has written. Never met the man or met anyone who has.

But as a poker players, what's your read on this guy? He doesn't impress you as an honest guy? Pretty much what you see is what you get? Have you ever seen a glimmer of the kind of person who cheats and lies? Does he seem like a person who may have the intellect to accomplish what he has by practice and study?

People can be deceiving and some people are very good at it too but gun to your head is he an honest man? If I had that gun to my head it's an easy choice for me.

lol does he have the intellect? poker is really a simple game, and a people game where on an average hand a great player has only a small edge against the worst player. but like doyle, if u play millions of hands that small average edge can turn into millions of dollars.

does it matter what doyle's iq is? discipline is way more important than iq to success. doyle has an obsessive personality, the kind that makes him work for hours upon hours every day on his passions. he was a great runner, a great basketball player, and - who'd ever guess? - a great poker player!

so does he have the intellect? what i can say is he did put in the hours, the kind of hours that the average person can't bring themselves to put in. and that's why doyle's not a decent, or a good, but rather a monster of a poker player