What’s Your Play? Cold 4-Bet in Berlin

You've got only 525 invested into the pot, so I say muck those ladies pronto.

Your only other option is to put it another raise and try to squeeze out V1 if you think V2 is doing this to steal. But that'll take at least 1/4 of your stack so I don't see it to be very worth your time and risk.

I think a lot depends here on how you feel at the table and in the field at large. If you feel you can pick up easier chips in a lot of better spots, do that. If you feel you can't, try to do it here with a raise.

Oh, and FYI, the past tense of squeeze is squeezed, not squoze. I picked that word up from my mom and my wife the English teacher was quick to drive it out of me...squoze sounds much better though...

How deep is villain 1? I think V2 has a stack size you could consider getting in in against, so I think the dynamic is very different if V1 has you covered or if he has less than V2.

If he has less than V2 (or about the same) I would consider just shoving right there. If they both have 65bb or less its possible you could get it in profitably. You could easily get a call from AK and a few smaller pairs.

If V1 has you covered (or very close), I think its a pretty clear fold. It seems like he has a pretty strong interest in the hand, and you know you can't get it in profitably vs him w/QQ when he's that deep.

Personally, its difficult for me to fold QQ if I'm only effectively 65bb deep. This is a spot to consider it though, live cold 4 bets are usually pretty serious. I think I'd be really on the fence if that was the case.

If V1 has you covered, I can't see putting in 180bbs w/ QQ there.

I really hope I read it right and you didn't mention the guys stack size.

Survival is the name of the game.. reluctantly fold and wait for a better spot.

I just can not find a fold here with QQ to a click back and short stacked 4 bet from an apparent squeeze spot without more info. Usually I would prefer not to play QQ against more than 1 opponent, but the stack sizes of V1 and V2 here may make it profitable to try to keep V1 in the pot if I feel I am ahead of his range. QQ is normally a big hand here in most spots and can be easy to get away from post flop if necessary.

I'm thinking my 2 choices are to flat the 4 bet and see what V1 does or to click back a 5 bet and see what V1 does, with the intention using this new info I get from V1 before deciding whether or not to get it all-in against him.

I think I like the 5 bet better than a flat though as it seems likely I am ahead of V1's min raise range, as he 3x'd with KK. V2 raise, even though it's from a natural spot to squeeze, is concerning as losing to him could cost 1/3 of my stack, but I have to believe QQ is usually ahead of his range here as well and he can not bust me.

In any event I can still get away from the hand after a 5 bet to 6.4K or so if V1 shoves or re-raises and I then feel, using this new information, I am behind. I would still have 29K to play on with. If V1 folds to the 5 bet and V2 shoves I am obviously going to call the remaining 7K and take my chances.

I really don't think the squeeze play mentality is applicable here - V2 has a hand (speculating obviously) he's OOP and trying to narrow the field - how does QQ play here - you're not sure V1 is 3betting light and you have only $525 invested - I can't see this call being a positive +ev play - you also came into the pot UTG+1 which means you're not fooling around if you had a couple or orbits of non playing - and then came into this pot - it should raise some eyebrows..so again one of these guys have you in a bad spot or it's a race.. I would wait for a better spot..

But if you decide to play - I like the line the above poster takes..

Villain 2 seems to be asking for a shove or two folds. I'd put in a raise to say goodbye to Villain 1 for sure. Villain 2 might find a fold here if he was "squozing" Lol... If not hopefully he doesn't have you crushed. I can't automatically put him on KK/AA here.

Is V2 out of position? He could be on the button ... are we assuming he is SB or BB? I didn't see that info called out.

Looking at the 3 choices we always have folding does seem to be the quickest and most prudent with only 525 invested into around a 5000 pot. Don't think I am folding here too much ... V1 just had AA and KK, not to say he doesn't have them again, but more than likely he has lower pairs or big Aces. It is possible with the 'min' type raise that he wants someone to go over the top so he can shove but at this point I think his range is mostly behind QQ.

So 2625 to call is not a great price against AA or KK, but do-able with some implied odds from V1 if he comes along, it also would prevent V2 from shoving until you see the Flop. However I don't think you really define V1's hand since he can now call 2050 into around 8000 with a pretty wide range and possibly be in position if V2 is not on the button. Calling also doesn't define Hero's hand totally, but most would think that AA or KK would shove here to just take down the pot or push V1 out.

A min raise to 6500 puts more pressure on V1 to shorten his range whether it be a call or shove but it allows V2 to shove regardless of what V1 does and is that a door that should be left open right now? V2 pretty much knows that you are calling his shove even if the price is wrong at 7000 into around 19K if V1 folds.

A 4th option would be to shove and hope neither has AA or KK to take the pot down right now or get a call from V2 with AK, JJ or 10s. This would be a very acceptable result.

Not really an option, but part of the thought process needs to be how do we create a scenario where we get V2 all-in and V1 willing to put more than 13K into the pot so if we lose to V2 we can re-coup some chips from V1. In order to do this we must build a bigger pot pre-Flop so that a wider range of hands that we can beat are priced into some Flop or Turn betting. Not sure that the stack sizes are right here ... if V1 had more behind a Hero all-in, then this might happen more often but probably not here without a dream Flop. And I'm not sure you want to try and do this with less than AA or KK.

Folding 20% of the time.
Calling and folding to any all-in 47% of the time.
Min re-raise and folding to any all-in by V1 and cry calling V2 28% of the time.
Shoving and hoping that V1 doesn't have AA or KK 5% of the time.

I think it is very good to think that since we showed tight play and opened from early position that we have 10s or better and no worse than AQ suited in our range ... but early on a Day 1 against unknown opponents you just have to go with how you are feeling at that time.

Bluff-shove imo.

I would think that about 98% of guys that wear guns n roses 2011 tour shirts are middle-aged guys who were guns n roses fans 25 years ago and have since made a lot of money at something or other and can now do things like pay a couple hundred bucks to pay to see the 2011 version of guns n roses and play in expensive poker tournaments.

Funny you should ask..two weeks ago - small tournament - twelve people left - eleven paid - hero - older gentleman with immense charm and clean clothes) wakes up UTG with QQ. Opened with 2XBB, and was 3bet by one villain (even older dude with decades of expeeerience) with bigger stack. Shoved, and villain turned over AA.

Mark Twain: "The cat, having sat upon a hot stove lid, will not sit upon a hot stove lid again. But he won't sit upon a cold stove lid, either.”

Ain't gonna shove QQ from UTG again until I'm in the money!

Fold.

When you fold you will see AQ vs TT
When you shove you will get called by KK and then AA

Just my cynical observation...

I think the best is to fold. It is unlikely you get the whole stack in preflop. ( If you do, no chance you are ahead.) Then you are in bad shape when the blind shoves the flop, overcards hit the flop, or it is checked to you after the 10 high flop and you have to bet big not knowing if you are beat, check-call, or give up the hand. Best case scenario is top set on the flop, but you know it is unlikely and you almost certainly can find a better spot with 180bbs

I think villains have to put hero on a pretty tight range based on play, image and position. Widest range: 99+, AQo+, AJs+.
Villain 1 has played big hands recently. I think he can see this situation as an opportunity to come in with a small reraise holding a fairly wide range, any pair or suited connectors. The raise could buy him the button and hero could possibly fold. If villain gets to see a flop, he could hit a hand Hero could not put him on and win a huge pot. He has a nice stack, a solid image and a little play here, if it works, would make him a force to reckon with at this table. If he gets played back on preflop or misses the flop, he can let go with no real harm to his stack or image.
Villain 2 may be capable of seeing Villain 1’s opportunity and recognize an opportunity of his own. He can rep a monster hand (KK,AA) with a solid 4 bet putting the squeeze on our Hero and Villain 1. Both our Hero and Villain 1 will be hard pressed to proceed without AA, yet Villain 2 could be playing almost ATC.
So, Hero could be good with QQ but it will look as though he has AA if he 5 bets. Unless one of the Villains has exactly that holding, they will both have to fold. Hero should reraise just enough to put Villain 2 all in.