Poker Coverage: Poker Legislation Poker Tournaments Daily Fantasy Sports Poker Stories Podcast U.S. Poker Markets
Wsopbanner

Thumb_roy-winston-blog

Daniel Negreanu Shoots a Major Angle

by Roy Winston |  Published: Jan 08, '10

Print-icon
 

So here I am in Cyprus adjusting to the ten hour time difference between LA/Vegas and I’m catching up on the action at PCA and came across a video update with Daniel Negreanu where he is playing a hand against an opponent and they are on the river. Here is the link, watch it for yourself before you read any further:

http://www.cardplayer.com/cptv/channels/13-other-poker-videos/poker-videos/3964-2010-pokerstars-caribbean-adventure-negreanu-calls-floor

I am going to go out on a limb here and say Negreanu has to know the rules of poker by now. So when he raises his opponent’s river bet and his opponent thinks it was a call and begins to roll over his hand, he knows full well that it doesn’t stop the action. It may result in a warning or penalty, but the hand is not over. In fact Negreanu has the advantage because he has seen part of his opponent’s hand. Then at the end of the video Negreanu say’s “I wasn’t going to call anyway,” yeah right! The whole thing, calling the floor after he saw part of the hand was an attempt to see if his straight was good and decide if his opponent had aces up or a full house. It was a terrible decision by the floor person, clearly being pressured by Negreanu. Kind of interesting that he is helping roll out a new poker tour as an “ambassador” of PS, and he muscles the floor guy, who you can see has a PS logo on his shirt, I was truly shocked buy the whole episode. Let me know what you think.

Roy Winston finished 16th in 2007 Card Player, Player of the Year race. He won the WPT Borgata Poker Open and finished the year with well over $2 million in tournament poker winnings. Roy plays online exclusively at Full Tilt. For more information on Roy Winston, you can visit his website: www.oraclepoker.net or send an email to: winstonpoker@yahoo.com with your questions or comments. The contents presented herein on this blog are purely the opinions of Roy Winston, and are not intended to reflect or promote the opinions of any other person, group, or entity. If you like what I write than thanks for reading, and if not well, thanks anyway.

 
Any views or opinions expressed in this blog are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the ownership or management of CardPlayer.com.
 

Comments

runitwice
over 7 years ago

I couldn't agree more. The video speaks for itself, shame on you Daniel.

 
Reply
 

Lemayzing22
over 7 years ago

I agree that he definitely helped the floor person make the decision, but it ultimately boils down to what the floor person decides not Daniel.

Another thing to think about is that playing in so many different casinos in so many different parts of the world there are different ruling at different casinos, so I don't think it was a horrible idea to ask the floor person on what was to happen. Plus, isn't playing poker about gathering as much information as possible to make the correct decision moving forward. I think that's all he was doing...

Also, the floor person had a pokerstars patch because it is a pokerstars event... I thinkg you're reading WAY too much into this.

 
Reply
 

MoosPlayer
over 7 years ago

Asking for ruling is not an angle shoot. The other player misunderstood the action, some confusion resulted,a ruling was requested.

 
Reply
 

scootterxlch
over 7 years ago

IT is time that there is a standard of rules for tournament poker . Poker is simple in rulings like golf. Lets get it all set in stone so there is less importance for a floor persons judgement

 
Reply
 

allday1233
over 7 years ago

I think your comments are pretty bold Roy. It's a three minute video and you're trying to say that Daniel was "shooting a major angle". Very interesting interpretation..he probably wasn't going to call isn't that absurd. Given the action I think that's a very basic fold. To me it just looks like you were waiting to pounce on some issue regarding Daniel. Respect the guy he is one of the best ambassadors of poker! You guys should be working together not attempting to make false accusations. He simply wanted to get to show down w/o calling the additional raise. PERIOD.

 
Reply
 

WPS22
over 7 years ago

Your rivalry with Daniel reminds me of a rivalry between two college football teams. One school is really big and barely know the rivalry exists;the other school is tiny and the rivalry means everything to them. Can you guess who is who?

The fact that you can write an entire blog post based on the very limited info you have on this situation is incomprehensible. I'm a nobody and I would have called the floor person every time in that situation. I've seen other nobodies call the floor for much less and I know you have too. To berate a respected professional for simply asking for a ruling is uncalled for. How would you like it if the next time you ask for a ruling other pros start blogging about how you are a bully?

 
Reply
 

R.J. Stuffnpuff
over 7 years ago

It sounds like you're still bitter over some comments made months ago. I guess you just can't get that taste out of your mouth.

 
Reply
 

brunell0407
over 7 years ago

man you are a whiner. Get over the Bellagio comment. The fact is you are obsessed with the Bellagio, and 3/4 of your blogs include something about the Bellagio. He makes one joke about it and you won't drop it. Get real Winston.

 
Reply
 

Lemayzing22
over 7 years ago

brunell... get you s--t straight. It's the Borgata not the Bellagio. Obvi you dont know what the F you're talking about, so keep your comments to yourself

 
Reply
 

fl1pm0de98
over 7 years ago

so what you guys are saying is daniel is allowed to criticize but Roy can't strike back? so what if Roy's pissed, I would be too. plus Daniel gave him ammo with that classless angle shoot.

 
Reply
 

raydavis77
over 7 years ago

I tottally agree with Roy, and as a ammbasordor for poker Danials was tottally out of line, it looked like a angle and it was now i love Danial but I cant stand up for him in this case he owe's the poker world a explanation, if poker is to continue to grow, in saying that Daniel should man up and take responsibilty for his action.

 
Reply
 

runitwice
over 7 years ago

You all don't get it, Daniel was completely wrong, he used abused his power to get the floor to make a bad decision. Daniel's comments were way across the border, he had a straight that he first thought he value raised then after seeing one card he was worried that he was behind and blocked the guys ability to raise so he could see a showdown without risking more chips.

Roy's comments may be harsh, but hey the truth hurts sometime, but at least it is always the truth.

Maybe it's time for Daniel to start behaving as a gentleman, although the trend in sports is not to, just look at Tiger Woods, another fallen hero.

Come on Daniel I love you, turn it around before you become just another ass in a world full of them.

 
Reply
 

BigHoosier47
over 7 years ago

Major angle shoot? Hardly! I'm just a nobody low limit player, but c'mon Roy. You would've asked for the floor too. By the way that guy didn't seem to be real sharp seeing that it had to be explained to him multiple times before he understood what really happened.2 million on the line anyone with any sense is going to get a ruling there.

 
Reply
 

MoosPlayer
over 7 years ago

In some card rooms and some tournaments, it's against the rules to turn your cards up before the action is complete. Apparently, that is the rule here. The dealer had to stop the player from doing that, but an ace had been exposed. The floor was called and made the correct ruling and did not penalize the player.

 
Reply
 

Lemayzing22
over 7 years ago

runitwice, your a donkey

 
Reply
 

runitwice
over 7 years ago

Read the thread on 2+2, 99% say Daniel is a DB. What if he saw ace paint, you think he would have called the floor to complain? I don't think so, he would have re-re-raised. Also how about calling the flop with air and the turn for the gutterball, some great player. Maybe once upon a time but.....

The video shows it all, he knows the rules, angles the situation then muscles the floor person. Can't help but notice the pokerstars logo on the floor persons shirt.

Daniel is a disgrace. He heeds to find another priest to play heads up on TV, thats much more his speed

 
Reply
 

texasroadgambler
over 7 years ago

You're all missing the elephant in the room---the wearing of headphones of some type or description.

I have noticed other disputes and discussions about floor rulings.Almost all of them involved at least one of the disputants wearing them. None of them would have been necessary if they would implement a rule in all casinos that prohibited the wearing of any type of device that impaired your hearing.

 
Reply
 

MoosPlayer
over 7 years ago

LOL runitwice: "Read the thread on 2+2, 99% say Daniel is a DB"

Getting value out of 2+2 requires sifting out the 99% of entries that are flame and stupidity.

 
Reply
 

R.J. Stuffnpuff
over 7 years ago

This just in..... The morally superior degenerate gamblers at 2+2 have just convicted Daniel Negreanu of angle shooting. Because Daniel is over the age of 21 the Supreme Court of NVG has permanently labeled him as washed up and a blight on poker. Since Daniel has won more money at poker than 99% of 2+2 posters it's been confirmed that he could give a s**t

 
Reply
 

KScityShuffL
over 7 years ago

lol Roy is so bitter its ridiculous! I don't care what he tries to say in this blog; I guarantee Roy DOES THE EXACT SAME THING in this situation! I will go so far to say every person that has posted here would also do the same thing DN did. Poker is a game of making decisions based on any information that is available to you(bet sizing/percentage of 3-betting/how often a player enters a pot etc etc etc) This just happens to be a case where a donkey flipped over a card and gave DN ACTUAL information during a hand. Anyone in this thread does the exact same thing in this situation. After seeing one of his hole cards, everyone of you try to get it to showdown as well...including you Roy Winston so get off your high horse and get over the Borgata blog from DN as well.

 
Reply
 

Dr_Dumass
over 7 years ago

What the hell is a Roy Winston? It sounds like a pretty bitter drink. How does this clown have a column?

 
Reply
 

seamarfan269
over 7 years ago

Since none of you are TD's, i'll attempt to educate you, respectfully. TDA rules (i don't know if PCA follows TDA or not, but it would be a good idea) state that exposed hand MAY invoke a penalty. Cleary Daniel raised and Player B doesn't realize it and starts to show hand. Daniel admits to Floorperson that he only saw part of the hand (Ad and either 4s or 5s). Since it wasn't immediately clear to Player B that it was a raise; i agree no penalty should be given other than a warning to pay attention to action in future. With an exposed (or partially exposed hand in this case) the action HAS to be frozen since Daniel has knowledge about players hand that he is not supposed to have with action still pending. Most cardrooms have a rule that state, "Decisions of the Floorperson ARE final". Therefore all our opinions are mute. Daniel DOES have a right to get a floor ruling, so once again that point is irrelevent. The bottomline is that "Daniel haters" want to say he's unethical and "Daniel lovers" want to say "you are over-reacting"... I'm pretty sure Daniel's record speaks for itself. Nuff Said.

 
Reply
 

dapizzaman40
over 7 years ago

WPS22 says it best. Read that.

 
Reply
 

ak47
over 7 years ago

First of all: "decide if his opponent had aces up or a full house" - it's a great comment, except with 2 aces on board - its trips or Full House.

Other then that - this is poker so hell yeah - anyone who is playing poker should call the floor and if you simply ignore and pay an extra 20 K raise(which is most of Daniel chips at the time) - then you don't understand the game - so keep adjusting to your ten hour time difference.

 
Reply
 

michawat
over 7 years ago

gg seamarfan

 
Reply
 

TXMaxx
over 7 years ago

Asking for ruling is not shooting an angle. The other player misunderstood the action, some confusion resulted,a ruling was requested.

Winston, you are a tool in this...were you at the table? did you see the live action? The other players at the table knew Daniel was not shooting an angle...get a life

 
Reply
 

fabo747
over 7 years ago

Very bad blog on your part!! Daniel is a very well known poker player and the last thing the poker world needs is you telling them pros are trying to shoot angles!! You have something against daneil casue he made fun of you alwyas bringing up the borgata big deal! He has never bashed your skills as a player or questioned your integrity of the game!! Bad call daniel has way more fans and pull to make enmeys with him!!

 
Reply
 

fabo747
over 7 years ago

Roy winston was an amateur turned pro becasue he hit a nice couple scores all power to him but i think he lets his insecurities come out as a pro when he is made fun of!!

 
Reply
 

ontheroadjoe
over 7 years ago

These players are not in the same league. Winston donked a few tourneys and thinks he is an expert. His luck ran out and now he just has bitter comments against the best and classiest player in the game.

The numbers speak for themselves.

Daniel 2009 $1,204,368
Winston 2009 $25,728

As for who is classier, read the columns and make up your own mind. I think it is pretty clear.

 
Reply
 

drneau
over 7 years ago

Roy Winston is a moron.

Lock it up!

 
Reply
 

TheJok3r
over 7 years ago

this is so ridiculous that a simple request for a floor ruling has called out the integrity of one of the nicest and most respected players in the game...To publicly criticize the integrity of a player and attempt to shame his name is an incredibly low blow..if roy winston had any chance of gaining an ounce of my respect, he has lost that completely

 
Reply
 

mago
over 7 years ago

Angle shoot? hardly. In most tournaments that I have played in you can not show your cards period. In cash games, showing cards is allowed. This guy clearly showed his cards, Daniel was just asking for a ruling, even though once he saw the other players cards that he was not going to call. Protect your cards and stop wearing the damn headphones.

 
Reply
 

My hemmies hurt
over 7 years ago

Please see comments on his next blog. I bet if I offered to buy this douchebag a drink he would order a vinegar and water!

 
Reply
 

lilmacdaddy
over 7 years ago

Daniel doesn't need to angle shoot. He is beyond fair at the table. You can like Daniel or hate Daniel but its idiotic to think he really was trying to angle shoot this guy.

 
Reply
 

NYY2009Champs
over 7 years ago

Ive played with you Roy at Bellagio and your favorite Borgata, and thought you were nice in person. But this has crossed the line, you need to be banned from writing blogs for this respected website as you provide no insight, and just bash others. Go get a life. All in favor of banning winston, email support at support@cardplayer.com

 
Reply
 

danmac78
over 7 years ago

Most of the people have over looked the most glaring mistake of your blog. You say "Then at the end of the video Negreanu say’s “I wasn’t going to call anyway,” yeah right!". So what you are saying Roy is that if you saw your opponents hand and knew you were beat you would go ahead and call the re-raise (if it were allowed to stand) anyway? Yep you are quite the poker pro. I bet there is a waiting list to get on your table! LOL!

 
Reply
 

yolkypalky
over 7 years ago

Why is this even worth talking about. You can't expose your hand in order to, theoritically, get a read on your opponent and then use that read to re-raise. This is obvious. It's like, hmmm let me show my hand to you, find out if you didn't like what you saw, and then ok now let me re-raise you! Roy Winston shame on you, you know better

 
Reply
 

pokerbrain888
almost 7 years ago

Check out Roy Winston and "Corporation" Mike on the March 15, 2007 episode of Live at the Bike; 19 minutes in. Roy has Qh QC in the big blind and Mike has 4d 6d on the button. Pre flop Mike raises to $175 and Roy re-raises to $400. Mike calls. Flop comes 4h 5s 3s. Roy bets $700 and Mike raises $1200 on top. Roy tanks and asks "How much you have left?" Roy tanks again, then says, "Let's see what you've got." He moves all his small denomination chips forward with a $5000 chip in his hand. Mike tanks then says "I have to call and moves all of his chips forward into the pot. Mike has Roy covered. Mike then asked Roy if he wants to run it more than once. Roy says no. Turn 8c. River 7s and Mike makes his straight. (It is important to note that neither player took a turn or river action. This would seem to indicate that both players and the dealer understood that both players were all in.) When it comes time to pay, Roy then claims that the $5000 chip in his hand was not part of the pot because he did not leave it with the rest of the chips in the middle. The floor man is then called over to make a decision.

 
Reply